Italian proverbs: chi puo' non vo

This isn't actually a proverb, but a proverb-like saying found on a building in lovely Ascoli Piceno in north-central Italy (see below), in the Marche region of Italy. Ascoli is well worth visiting. While there, don't miss the local specialty of olive ascolane, scrumptious local stuffed olives.

As I was saying before my attention was waylaid by considerations of food (happens all the time). In Ascoli they have a number of sayings sculpted on the front of buildings. Here is a pithy statement from 1529 on why life is not all it could be:

Chi po non vo/chi vo non po/chi sa non fa/chi fa non sa/et cosi' il mondo mal va.

In modern Italian:

Chi puo' non vuole/chi vuole non puo'/chi sa non fa/chi fa non sa/e cosi' il mondo male va.

In English:

He who can doesn't want to/he who wants to can't/he who knows doesn't do/he who does doesn't know/ and this is how the world goes badly.

This is actually pretty deep when you think about it. And on this cheerful note, I wish you a happy Fourth.

Italian proverbs- meglio un uovo oggi che una gallina domani

The proverb meglio un uovo oggi che una gallina domani literally means that it is better to have an egg today than a chicken tomorrow. This obviously indicates that it is better to have a sure thing in the present than expect a better outcome in the future that might not come about. It's the equivalent of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

Obviously the Italians never paid much attention to this proverb or else they would have consumed all the eggs before they hatched and chickens would have become extinct, taking all future eggs with them. No frittata. No pollo al mattone. Che disastro.

For my little compilation of Italian food expressions, see here.

Italian proverbs- Campa cavallo che l'erba cresce

Here is another obscure Italian saying that has no equivalent in English.

Campa cavallo che l'erba cresce literally means "live, horse, because the grass is growing." This is taken from a story in which a man has a horse that is exhausted and about to (how shall I put this?) croak. To encourage the horse to go on and not give up he tells the poor animal that the grass around them is growing even as he speaks- implying that the horse will eventually have something to eat.

The saying (often abbreviated to just "campa cavallo") is used to comment upon empty promises, or situations where a favorable outcome is difficult or not forthcoming at best.

Some examples in context:

Mi presti mille euro? Ti ripago quando trovo lavoro.
Eh, campa cavallo!

Can you lend me a thousand euros? I'll pay you back when I get a job.
Yeah, right.

Col nuovo governo andremo in pensione prima.
Campa cavallo che l'erba cresce.

We can retire earlier when the new government takes charge.
Sure we can!

Italian proverbs- sbagliando s'impara

Here's an all too common proverb in Italian: sbagliando s'impara. One learns by making mistakes. And boy oh boy, am I ever learning a thing or two about veggie gardening, which I have just gotten into, despite the tragic fact that I live in rocky and foul-weathered New England.

I can't begin to tell you of my travails with the reputedly (hah!) easy to grow zucchini. According to the Burpee seed packet, I should be harvesting the damn things by now, since I started them in April in a greenhouse in which I rented a space for this purpose. That is, to lengthen our stupid growing season in Massachusetts. But noooooo. I just now got two zucchini flowers, and I can't even eat them because they're male flowers that are supposed to pollinate the female flowers, that haven't even showed up yet. Sometimes they can't even get it on on their own, and you're supposed to hand pollinate them. I don't think so. At that point, I'm headed to the nearest Farmer's Market or Shaw's supermarket.

What a steep learning curve, I tell ya.

Italian learners: notice that sbagliando is a gerund. Also notice that s'impara is reflexive in Italian, whereas it would not be in English. Unfortunately, reflexive verbs are not necessarily the same in Italian and other languages, so that you need to memorize what is reflexive in Italian (verbs can of course be both reflexive and not reflexive).

Update, 6/19/12. "Faithful reader" Steve Cabito has correctly noted that s'impara here is obviously not a reflexive but impersonal use of si. What was I thinking? Distraught by my high-maintenance zukes?


Here are more examples of impersonal si. 


Signori si nasce, non si diventa.


Gentlemen are born, not made.


Come si dice zucchina in inglese?


How do you say zucchina in English?


Non si dicono le bugie!


One should not tell lies!

Italian proverbs- chi e' surdu orbu e taci...

Here's our proverb of the week- chi e' surdu orbu e taci campa cent'anni impaci (chi e' sordo, orbo e tace campa cent'anni in pace). He who is deaf, blind and mute lives in peace to be a hundred. The Southern Italian proverb expresses the quintessence of omerta', or organized crime's code of silence. As such I think it is contemptible; far from expressing any notion of loyalty or even prudence, it is a justification of cowardice.

Italian proverbs- tradurre e' tradire

Tradurre e' tradire- translation is betrayal.This is one of the best-known Italian proverbs, to the extent that people think at all about translation and translating. That is, not to a very great extent. It is also a thorn in the side of translators everywhere.

But at its most basic level, it is of course true; a truism, even. It is always a compromise to have to translate or interpret, a compromise dictated by the fact that people need and want to communicate across linguistic lines, but are necessarily limited in their language skills. I myself always try to avoid reading a book in translation if I know the language, even if the book would be more accessible here in the States in English.

It is also true on a deeper level. Translation is not some sort of cryptography whereby you transpose one code into another, and this is why automatic translation doesn't really work and probably never will. Translation is a work of inter-cultural interpretation, and as such necessarily fails to render its target perfectly because two different cultures are different and not equivalent. In the pages of this blog I've often brought out the semantic gaps between English and Italian. For instance, solitudine in Italian means both "loneliness" and "solitude." There is no separate word in Italian for loneliness. To my mind, this reflects a cultural difference- the normally gregarious Italians conflate the two ideas, supposing perhaps that to be alone is to be lonely, a distinction that an English-speaker can readily make because it's built into the language.

But what bothers translators (justifiably) about the saying is that it belittles their role and their work. From my not insignificant experience as a translator I can tell you that it is not easy, and it is especially not easy to do well in a timely manner, which is the expectation. The devaluation of this work is reflected in poor compensation and working conditions. In a vicious cycle, the idea that "anybody can do it" leads to the fact that translations are often done by just anybody who has studied the language, and often translating out of their language e.g. an Italian translating into English. The latter is almost always a very bad idea. The results, often laughable (and sometimes hilarious) further detract from the status and credibility of translators- except that these people are not translators. Unfortunately, a really good translation is inconspicuous by its presence; you won't even think of the translation, its quality, or the person doing it if the translation is so good that you feel that you are losing yourself in the original.

Overall, a semi-thankless task, so think twice before repeating the proverb.

Italian sayings- pensa alla salute

This is a popular saying in Italian, often rendered in Neapolitan as pensa a' salute, literally, think of your health. This is something Italians will say to you when you are whining about relatively inconsequential things and they wish to bring you back to the reality of what is really important in life. I can't argue with that.

In the video, we see the great comedic actors Toto' and Peppino De Filippo (appropriately, both are from Naples). They're zippin' along a country road and Toto' literally lashes out at poor Peppino. He then adds insult to injury by telling the mildly complaining Peppino: pensa alla salute.

Italian proverbs- chi va con lo zoppo

Here's our Italian proverb: chi va con lo zoppo impara a zoppicare- he or she who goes with the lame learns how to limp. This would describe the supposed effects of taking on the negative qualities of people one associates with. I tend to agree with this, although most people will eventually shy away from those who have persistent negative habits they themselves don't have, especially if those with the bad habits show no intention of changing.

An amusing modern update of the proverb says that chi va con lo zoppo arriva in ritardo- he who goes with the lame will get there late. If you know Italian and Italian proverbs well, here are some more of these funny versions, technically known as anti-proverbs, which I rather enjoyed.

A small compendium of Italian food expressions

As previously stated in the pages, or rather, screens, of this illustrious blog, the Italians have lots and lots of idioms, sayings and proverbs about food and wine. Let's take a look at some. I make no claim to being exhaustive, as there are also many local sayings in dialects I don't know. Many have already been presented in previous posts. Here goes.

Tanto ci va la gatta al lardo che ci lascia lo zampino. The cat goes to the lard so many times that she leaves her paw-print. If you keep doing something wrong, there will be consequences, you'll get caught. Some think this refers to an actual paw caught in a trap made with lard. However, they are wrong and I know better; the moral is the same anyway. I am mildly offended by the fact that they made the cat female, as if we were recidivist troublemakers. I also did not know cats loved lard so much. I thought they loved "cheezburgers". Come to think of it, cheeseburgers are the modern American equivalent of lard. I can just see someone's cat leaving its (note: its, neutral) paw-print in the melted cheddar cheese patty at Mickey Dee's.

Chi ha denti non ha pane, chi ha pane non ha denti. He who has teeth doesn't have bread, he who has bread doesn't have teeth. The young who have the conditions to enjoy life don't have money and possessions, the old have financial stability but not the beauty, health etc. to make the most of it. A cheerful thought for your Saturday morning.

Chi non risica non rosica. He who doesn't risk doesn't gnaw (= eat). Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Il vino fa buon sangue. Wine makes for good blood. Namely, it improves your HDL cholesterol level and probably some other stuff.

In vino veritas. In wine (there is) truth. Yes, I know this is Latin, but it is so close to the Italian that they say it all the time. Alcohol lowers inhibition and the real person comes out. True.

C'entra come i cavoli a merenda. As appropriate as cabbage for a snack. Said of something irrelevant, a non sequitur.

Al contadino non far sapere quanto e' buono il formaggio con le pere. Don't let the farmer know how good cheese is with pears. WTF? This is so obscure an Italian food scholar had to write a book about it. Result: he increased the obscurity, something intellectuals have been known to do.

Finire a tarallucci e vino. To end up with tarallucci cookies and wine. When some dispute or unpleasantness ends amicably.

O mangi la minestra o salti dalla finestra. Eat this soup or jump out the window. You have no real choice: it's my way or the highway.

Volere la botte piena e la moglie ubriaca. He wants a full wine barrel and a drunken wife. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Showing that Italians prize wine more than cake. How right they are.

Bacco, tabacco e Venere riducono l'uomo in cenere. Bacchus, tobacco and Venus turn man to ash. Booze, smokes and sex will do you in.

L'appetito vien mangiando. Appetite comes to you while eating. Not true, as anyone who has ever been on a diet can tell you.

Dire pane al pane e vino al vino. To call bread, bread and wine, wine. To call things by their name, to speak frankly. To call a spade a spade.

Se non e' zuppa e' pan bagnato. If it's not soup it's soggy bread. It may not technically be something, but it's damn close. It's practically the same thing by another name.

Una ciliegia tira l'altra. One cherry leads to another. Like the old Lay's potato chips ad: betcha can't eat just one.

A tavola non s'invecchia. One does not grow old at the table. Time spent at the table is so pleasant it is to be subtracted from the usual tedium and vexation that make up our life.

E' meglio l'uovo oggi che la gallina domani. Better an egg today than a hen tomorrow. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Buono come il pane, bello come il sole. As good as bread, as beautiful as the sun.

Chi si loda, s'imbroda. He who praises himself, gets broth all over himself. People who compliment themselves lack cred, not to mention good taste.

Chi dorme non piglia pesci. He who sleeps doesn't catch fish. The early bird catches the worm. Italians prefer fish to worms. Me too. I also like to sleep, and have successfully combined my love of slumber and seafood, thus disproving the proverb. So there.

Non e' farina del mio sacco. It's not flour from my sack. It's not my cup of tea. It's outside my field of competence. Something like that.

Gallina vecchia fa buon brodo. An old hen makes good broth. Mildly sexist proverb on the supposed virtues of aging females. I would rather be twenty-nine again, to hell with the broth.

Il diavolo fa le pentole ma non i coperchi. The devil makes pots but not lids. There is no perfect crime, plans for wrong-doing are flawed and will fail. Made up by the same person who spoke of the cat and the lard. Did they ever think that successful wrong-doing seems impossible because by its nature it's undetected?

Il pesce puzza dalla testa. Fish starts stinking from the head. Groups or organizations go bad from the top.

La farina del diavolo va tutta in crusca. The devil's flour all turns to chaff. Made up by the same person responsible for the cat and pots proverbs above. Wishful thinking.

Mai piangere sul latte versato. Never cry over spilt milk. Notice that the Italians do not say mai piangere sul vino versato.

Come la ciliegina sulla torta. Like the little cherry on the cake, an addition to something that is already pleasant.

Ne ammazza piu' la gola che la spada. The throat kills more than the sword. This is probably true, if only because people no longer use swords. But in America, the number of people killed by guns and killed by eating like pigs is pretty close.

Nella botte piccola c'e il vino buono. The small barrel has good wine. Good things come in small packages.

Non c'e fumo senza arrosto. There's no smoke without a roast. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and being Italians, they are using the fire to cook.

Non m'importa un fico secco. I don't give a damn, literally, I don't give a dried fig.

Non tutte le ciambelle riescono col buco. Not all doughnuts turn out with a hole. You win some, you lose some. However, if you are making doughnuts without holes, you are a terrible cook and an idiot, and I want you to get off my blog.

Parla come mangi. Speak the way you eat. Be yourself, be natural. Although, what with all the culinary pretentiousness going around, I wouldn't be so sure.

Rendere pan per focaccia. To give bread in return for focaccia. To fight fire with fire, to give as good as you get.

Ridi ridi che la mamma ha fatto i [sic] gnocchi. Proof positive that Italians are a little crazy and always have been. Laugh, laugh, 'cause mom made gnocchi. There is actually a Facebook page on this with over 150,000 friends. Apparently said ironically to people who are laughing inappropriately. Although to be happy at the thought of home-made gnocchi is highly appropriate, if you ask me.

Tanto fumo poco arrosto. All smoke little roast. Someone who is all talk, all show, and no substance.

Troppi cuochi guastano la cucina Too many cooks ruin the kitchen. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

Non e' pane per i miei denti. It's not bread for my teeth, it's not my cup of tea.

Una mela al giorno toglie il medico di torno. An apple a day keeps the doctor away.

L'ospite e' come il pesce- dopo tre giorni puzza. Guests are like fish, they start to stink after three days. Don't overstay your welcome, folks.

Sta come il cacio sui maccheroni. It's like cheese (cacio is a popular word for cheese) on pasta. The opposite of cavoli a merenda. It fits it to a T, it's just right, perfect combination.

Magro come un'acciuga. As thin as an anchovy. As thin as a rail.

Del maiale non si butta niente. Nothing is thrown away from the hog. All parts of the pig are used. Historically the Italians have really eaten all parts of our porcine friends. Not just prosciutto.

Salvare capre e cavoli. To save both goats and cabbage, to reconcile opposing interests. A win-win situation. Apparently goats eat cabbage, so that if you want to raise both goats and cabbage, you need to get around this.

Cascarci come una pera (cotta). To fall for something/someone like a (baked) pear. To be tricked by or to become infatuated by someone. However, a properly-made baked pear does not fall apart.

Italian proverbs- o mangi 'sta minestra o ti butti dalla finestra

Italians have a lot of proverbs and sayings featuring food and wine. Maybe one day I'll make a compilation of them.

Here's one with soup: o mangi 'sta minestra o ti butti dalla finestra. You either eat this soup or jump out the window. It's very similar to our "it's my way or the highway" (which also rhymes- I love that in a proverb), to express a drastic lack of options.

In Altan's cartoon above, a mamma uses the proverb quite literally to force-feed her reluctant bambino, modifying it slightly to say that she will throw him out the window. He gives her lip by observing that she's very modern. Actually, it's not so realistic. A contemporary Italian woman is likely to outsource her baby-tending woes to a foreign tata (nanny).

Italian proverbs- prima de parlar, tasi

Here's a cute, and very true, proverb from Venice. Prima de parlar, tasi (=prima di parlare, taci). Before speaking, shut up.

This should be committed to memory for future use because it applies to 99% of humanity, so potentially you could use it every day, including with yourself (in the latter case, just think of the proverb, rather than saying it out loud, to avoid self-contradiction).

The way the Venetians have managed to implement this in an effective and practical way is to keep their mouths occupied in a more edifying manner, namely, the consumption of cicchetti and ombre (snacks and wine). Sounds good to me.

Word of the week- ciabatta

This week's word is ciabatta (chah-BAHT-tah). Many will already be familiar with this word as a type of crusty bread form. But the original meaning is "slipper," and the bread's name derives from a supposed resemblance to the latter. A multi-socket electrical fixture is also called a ciabatta.

Pantofola also means "slipper." These seem to be somewhat more formal and elegant than ciabatte, and are often made of cloth and closed at the back. Pantofole are associated with the home, whereas ciabatte can be informally used outside e.g. at the beach. Pantofolaio is a homebody, someone who likes to stay at home a lot.

There is also a rather sexist proverb that says ogni scarpa diventa ciabatta, every shoe becomes a slipper. This would mean that people (I strongly suspect they mean female people only) lose their beauty and value over time.

Montanari: Cheese, pears, and history- a review

Last year I wrote a post about this enigmatic Italian proverb: Al contadino non far sapere quanto e' buono il formaggio con le pere. Don't let the farmer (or peasant) know how good cheese is with pears. At the time, I referred to the interpretation by distinguished food historian Massimo Montanari that I had found on the Web from second-hand sources. But now his book is available in the US as Cheese, pears, and history in a proverb, and I was able to examine the argument behind his interpretation. An interpretation I still disagree with.

Yes, Montanari wrote an entire book on this one little proverb, albeit a little book of 88 pages (excluding references.) The very fact that a scholar and specialist is writing an entire book to explain the meaning of a proverb (and a well-known one at that) from his own culture is already odd. Odd because proverbs are undeniably an expression of the popular voice. And this is where my reasoning differs from Montanari's. He maintains that the proverb was an injunction by the upper classes to disallow the pairing of upper-class pears and lower-class cheese, a sort of propaganda for class privilege and stratification.

Proverbs are obviously a part of the oral tradition, and the upper classes propagated their knowledge by the written, not the oral, form. Literacy was rare and discouraged for this very reason. An exception may be the Bible, whose maxims became popular, but were originally passed on in an unwritten manner by literate priests in their (oral) homilies, or visually through paintings, or by plays.

To illustrate his point that proverbs can come from authorities and not the popular voice, the author asks rhetorically, "is 'one swallow does not make a summer' not perhaps a quotation from Aristotle?" But wait a second: the fact that the saying is found in Aristotle (Nicomachean Ethics) does not prove that it is a quotation from Aristotle; it is more likely that Aristotle was quoting a proverb to prove his point, and as everyone knows, a proverb needs no attribution. The translation has quotation marks, but the original Greek would not have quotation marks (they did not exist in ancient Greek). Does Montanari seriously think that this saying came down through more than two millennia because people in different cultures were reading the Nicomachean Ethics?

So, the proverb remains an enigma. And the biggest enigma is how a saying people don't really understand anymore continues to be known and repeated. As the tradition of proverbs is an oral tradition (with some written compilations, of course) it will be difficult to understand how this happened.

(In the photo, Seckel pears. I had a delicious Seckel pear and cheese pastry at this weekend's Boston Local Food festival- I wonder what would have happened if I had quoted the saying to some of the farmers...)

Italian (Venetian) sayings- se no ghe fosse el ponte

Despite having lived in the Veneto, the area of which Venice is the capital, for fifteen years, I had never heard this one. Probably because I lived in Vicenza and Padova, and not in Venice itself.

Se no ghe fosse el ponte, el mondo saria un'isoea (se non ci fosse il ponte il mondo sarebbe un'isola.) If it weren't for the bridge, the world would be an island. The bridge referred to is the Ponte della Liberta', built in the 30's to connect Venice to the mainland (or from their point of view, to connect us to Venice.) The railroad bridge already dated from the 19th century.

The saying reminds me of the famous headline (apocryphal?) in a British newspaper: "Fog over Channel , Continent isolated." Islanders do tend to have this mentality (my father was a native Key Wester.) Sicilians call Italy "the continent," as if they were not part of the same country. And Nantucketers used to call Massachusetts "America."

(in the photo, the bridge that was built to graciously connect us to Venice)

Italian proverbs- del maiale non si butta niente

Italian is full of proverbs relating to food and drink, naturally. Here's one that has become increasingly untrue over time.

Del maiale non si butta niente means quite simply that one does not (or at least should not) throw away anything from a pig. As Italy has become richer over the decades, the Italians have taken on our American habit of eating only selected, choice parts of animals, including hogs. Italians have only too gladly given up on things like sanguinaccio, an unspeakable (although I just spoke of it, forgive me) pudding made from pig's blood.

Actually, as part of the sustainability movement (of which I approve), there is a tendency to try to utilize all of the animal, going by the name of whole animal eating. This is going to be a hard sell, as offal is awful, and you probably need to be starving to eat it. But one could compromise and eat more cuts from the animal, if not all.

Does this saying relate to our English-language expression "to go the whole hog?" It would seem so from the meaning (to do something thoroughly), but the origins of the phrase are shrouded in mystery, like so many things.

(The picture shows the famed and beloved maxi-pig Empress of Blandings, from the highly entertaining P.G. Wodehouse)

Italian sayings- bello come il sole, buono come il pane

Two very common expressions in Italian, and extremely characteristic of the culture.

Both are similes (remember those from high school?) Expressions where two things are compared explicitly, using the words "like" or "as" (unlike metaphors, where the comparison is implicit.)

Bello come il sole- as beautiful as the sun. Buono come il pane- as good as bread.

Need I say more?

Italian proverbs- il diavolo fa le pentole ma non i coperchi

I like this one, and I think it's generally true. Il diavolo fa le pentole ma non i coperchi. The devil makes the pots but not the lids. It's not immediately intuitive.

It means that when one decides to do something dishonest or evil (like the devil), plans are made, lies are told, people and facts are manipulated. But something always happens to foil the plan. The truth comes out, or the wrongdoer is punished, or the plans fail. It is similar to the saying according to which there is no perfect crime.

Italian proverbs- una mela al giorno toglie il medico di torno

It's so pleasing when we can find a proverb from a different culture that's exactly the same. Such is the case with this one. Una mela al giorno leva il medico di torno. An apple a day keeps the doctor away (although the Italian literally says that it gets rid of the doctor.) In addition, the proverbs rhyme in both languages.

I always feel that a proverb must have at least some basis in truth. Even more so when more than one language has such a saying. So eat your apples!

While we're on the subject of fruit and the corresponding fruit words. In Italian, the word for the fruit is feminine: la mela, la pera, la ciliegia. But the words for the tree and the wood are masculine: il melo, il pero, il ciliegio.

Some examples:

Avevamo una libreria antica di pero.

We used to have an antique bookcase made of pear wood.

Che buone le mele!

Apples are so good!

I ciliegi sono in fiore a Washington.

The cherry trees are blooming in Washington.

Mi piacciono molto le ciliegie.

I love cherries.

Questo tavolo e' in ciliegio.

This table is cherry wood.

Italian proverbs- non tutte le ciambelle riescono col buco

A ciambella (chahm-BELL-ah) is the closest thing they have in Italy to a donut, although it is actually more similar to a ring cake. It is also nowhere near as common as our donuts, so beloved of cops, Homer Simpson, and many others. Even I will occasionally give in to a chocolate frosted at Dunkie's. Occasionally.

Our proverb informs us that not all donuts turn out with a hole. This means that you win some and you lose some, and not everything turns out as planned. Although, literally speaking, I don't know how a ciambella can possibly turn out without a hole unless you really mess up. You obviously need the proper equipment, with the ring in the middle. If you really make a ciambella or a donut without a hole you should perhaps get out of the kitchen.

Donuts without a hole are actually common in Italy (at least in the North), where they go by the name of krapfen (or the more Italian bombolone). They are of Germanic origin (doh!) and quite good. Although, come to think of it, they often do have a hole, but an internal hole filled with jelly or cream (yum)(this post is turning out more complicated than I had intended). If you are one of those culinarily-challenged people who makes donuts that turn out without the hole, and you insist on cooking, you can either quote the proverb or pretend you were making krapfen all along.

But the popularity of the Simpsons has piqued the Italians' curiosity about donuts, so some of them are trying the original. Along with muffins, cupcakes, scones, brownies, cheesecake and other Anglo-American goodies.

Phrase of the week- guerra fra poveri

Our phrase of the week is a topical one. Guerra fra poveri- literally, war between poor (or powerless) people.

This refers to fruitless and counter-productive conflict between those at the lower levels of money and/or power, to the benefit of those with more. It is similar to the Roman idea of "divide and conquer." It has some similarities to the concept of race to the bottom. And it recalls the Italian saying, fra due che litigano, il terzo gode (when two are fighting, the third party wins out.)

Why is it topical? More and more, both in Italy and elsewhere, we are hearing of conflicts of immigrants (illegal and otherwise) with native-born citizens. The latter are practically always struggling themselves. The stage is set for vicious hatred between the two groups. While I am strongly opposed to illegal immigration, I realize that the question is fraught and that the privileged of society are taking advantage of both foreign-born and native-born, setting them against each other, to their exclusive advantage.

For more detailed information on the immigration situation in Italy, research the recent events in Southern Italy in Rosarno and in Northern Italy in the Via Padova area of Milan (where some of my relatives lived in the 60's.)